February 24, 2020 0

L’Abécédaire de Gilles Deleuze – B comme Boisson

L’Abécédaire de Gilles Deleuze – B comme Boisson


…and B is something particular about the drink, which is that you’ve drunk and now you stop,… …and want to know, when you drank, what was that drink? Did it mean pleasure, what was it? Yes I drank a lot a lot, then I left, but I drank a lot, what was that? What was it? It is not difficult, I think we must ask other people who have drunk too much, ask about it all alcoholics. I think that drinking is a matter of quantity, and that’s why you do not have the food equivalent,… …for more guzzlers there, what to eat has always disgusted me, it’s not for me… …but the drink is an issue, I know that one does not drink anything, that each drinker has a favorite drink… …but the reason is that in this framework he discerns the quantity, it is a question of quantity What does this mean? This usually involves a lot of fun of drug addicts or alcoholics because they keep saying:.. “Oops I control, stop drinking when you want” is usually made fun of them… …because they do not understand what they mean. I have clear memories, That was perfectly clear and that people… …drink not understand. When you drink, what you want is to get the last cup,… …drink is literally do everything possible to get the last cup, that’s what interests me, provided the limit… …ah, it does that is the limit? It’s difficult to say… I’ll tell you another way: an alcoholic is someone who never ceases to stop drinking,… …ie it does come to the last glass, what does that mean? In a way that formula is as beautiful as Peguy: The last water lily does not repeat the first,… …no, is the last water lily who copies everyone else and the last. The first glass repeats… …the last, the latter is what matters. So what does the last drink for an alcoholic? Well he gets up in the morning, suppose that tomorrow is an alcoholic,… …that are of all types, then it ceases to be watching the moment when he reached the last glass They are neither the first nor the second nor the third is that interests you… …but there are some clever and cunning in an alcoholic, and the last glass means the following:.. …he evaluated, there is a valuation, he assesses what can withstand without collapsing. That varies widely depending on each person, he evaluates the last drink and then everyone else… …is his way of continuing to wait the last, and what does it last? It means that this day can not take any more drink. It is the last on… …that would allow it to start again the next day, because if you reach the final,… …on the contrary exceeds its power, if it passes the last man under his power,… …to reach the last that exceeds its power because it collapses, you’re screwed then,… …means that they are in the hospital, or change of habit, it means that change of arrangements; So when he says the last glass is not the last, is the penultimate, goes in search of the penultimate. Put another way, there’s a word for the penultimate… …before… to start the next day. So for me the alcoholic is someone who keeps saying: “Come, come,”… …is what you hear in pubs, are so happy crews alcohol, in cafes one never ceases to listen,… …and is that which says: “come on, this is the last” and the latter varies in different degrees,… …the last is the penultimate, and he who says that tomorrow I leave and such, “I leave tomorrow,”… …does not say tomorrow I leave, I leave for today says to start tomorrow. And then if drinking is to stop drinking without a break, how one… …stops drinking altogether? Because you stopped drinking altogether. It is very dangerous, it goes fast. Michaux has said it all, I think drug problems… …and alcohol problems are not so separate. Michaux has said… …all about. There comes a time when the thing becomes very dangerous,… …because here there is also a ridge, when he spoke of the slope between language and silence,… …or language and animality, there is a ridge, a narrow gorge, is fine to drink, do drugs. One can always do what you want, if that prevents you from working, if is an exciting,… …not a bad thing also deliver sacrifice his own body in all a very sacrificial… …in attitudes to drink, drugs Why a offers her body in sacrifice? Probably because there’s something too strong that one could not endure without alcohol… …stand the problem is not alcohol, but you think you need,… …one believes him, which one believes settle, think think, and makes… …has settled, you need to bear it, to dominate, aid, be it drug alcohol whatever. Indeed the border is very simple drink, drugs and all that, it is assumed that… …lavishly allows too strong, but then have to pay,… …already know, but in any case is linked to the following:.. …work work, otherwise it is clear that when everything turns around, and placed above,… …and drink from working, when the drug becomes a way of not working,… …then this is the absolute danger, that no longer has any interest,… …while one realizes that more and more, that while… …one considers necessary alcohol or drugs, are not at all. That is, maybe you have to go out there to realize that what you thought you could do thanks to drugs or alcohol,… …can do without them. I admire how Michaux… …says he now has become this, and leaves, which has more merit,… …because I stopped drinking for reasons of breath, health and disease… …but clearly they have to leave to dispense with it. The only justification is that minimum possible help to work, but then has to pay physically,… …but the longer one continues to drink, most do not think it helps to work,… …first, with Michaux, one must have been stoned a lot, drinking a lot… …to dispense with it in a similar state, and secondly you say… “When you drink, it does not help to work” But this is because one has glimpsed something… …that the drink helped to bear, and that something is life… …and then there is obviously raises the question that you are so fond of writers, Yes life is. Is anything too hard in life, not at all terrifying,… …too strong, too powerful in life, then you believe something so stupid… …that drinking can catch up with what is most powerful. If you examine the lineage of Americans, the big U.S. From Flitgerald… …if Flitgerald was one of the most admired, and Thomas Wolfe, it was a series of alcoholics,… …which at the same time allowed, and no doubt helps them perceive… …something that is too big for them,… …but this is also something that warned of the power of life… …not everyone can warn those felt something of the power of life,… …yes yes yes, that’s it, alcohol makes them feel that there is a power of life too strong for them,… …but note that only they can completely agree… …same thing happens with Lowry completely agree, and his work… What was the alcohol for them? Well it’s played, were played the type thinking… … that what helped them. In my case If I feel this helped me to make concepts, it is curious to philosophical concepts,… …and then I realized that it did not help me or put me in danger,… …or no longer wanted to work if he had been drinking. At that point you have to give up, it’s that simple,… And that’s going to be an American tradition, they do not know many writers French reveal their relationship with alcohol, and it costs too much, There is something that is part of writing, it must have in the U.S… …yes, but the French writers do not have this view of writing. I do not know if American writers have marked me so… …is a point of view, these views, here are seen as philosophy or writing,… …in a sense is a matter… truth be modest, seeing something that others do not see;… …and of course this is not at all the French concept of literature. That do note that there have been many alcoholics in France. But in France rather alcoholics stop writing, have many… …difficulties in short, we already know, but not many known… …philosophers who have confessed their inclination to drink. Nollet verlaine haunted the street, right next to here… Except Rimbaud and Verlaine… One is you scratch your head because when I say invokes Verlaine, well, Nollet undoubtedly has come to go to the bar to drink his absinthe. Appears to have a wretched apartment, and that… the poets,… …yes, there is greater evidence of the relationship between poets and alcohol. It is a wonder… …yes yes, no doubt, So we know that among the poets have been more ethyl. Well, we finished with alcohol Yes, we’re done with the B? How fast, eh? Time for C, C is long. What is it? Culture is C Yes, why not? You say not being educated, that is, you say you just read, you only see movies… …or just think things necessary for knowledge,… …and need for a particular job, which is what you are doing at any given time. But at the same time, you’re someone who goes every Saturday at an exhibition,… …or a movie in the cultural field select, and one gets the impression… …that there is a practice, an effort to sort of culture,… …to outline and have a cultural practice, which means that salts,… …make an effort, you tend to cultivarte yet again, say you’re not worship anything, So how do you explain that little paradox? Are not you worship? No, what I mean when I say I do not consider myself at all as an intellectual, I do not think anyone cultivated, is a very simple reason… …that is when I see someone I was amazed cultivated. Not so much admiration, some aspects raise me wonder,… …others none at all, but I’m amazed, someone keeps cult attention,… …this is a stunning know about everything, someone worship,… …happens a lot in the intellectuals, it seems that it is aware of everything,… …intellectuals will know the history of Renaissance Italy, are known to… …geography of the north pole, they know… well you could do a whole list,… …know everything, can talk about anything, is abominable. So when I say I’m not cultured or intellectual or want to say something very simple: I have no knowledge of reserve, none, so I’ll have no problem. When I die there will be things to look for my unpublished, nothing… …because I have no reservations, I have nothing, no deposit, no provisional namely,… …and everything I learn I learn for a particular task, so that once I forget the task completed to the point that 10 years later I am bound,… …and that gives me great joy when I am forced to go to work again on a theme Annex… …on the same topic, then I must start again from scratch,… …with the exception of a few cases, because Spinoza is in my heart, I do not forget, my heart not my head, except now this event I feel admiration for it, for this amazing culture. Is this scholarship or to have an opinion on every subject?.. …no, not about scholarship, they know what they are talking. For starters have traveled,… …geography have been good, they know and can talk about everything;… …on TV I could hear names, is a stunning,… …wonder how I feel, I can say even people like Umberto Eco, Eco is something wonderful, anything that is asked and that’s it’s like pressing a device,… …and it knows it’s not that… I can not say it’s something I want, but it baffled me what I want at all. Somehow I think that culture is largely to speak, I can not help especially now that I do of course, that I have retired,… …and I think increasingly that is dirty talk, while the writing is clean. Writing is clean, dirty talk, and that’s because it’s a flirtation. I have never supported the discussions, debates I attended when I was very young, not bear,… …nor travel, why not? For the intellectuals, whether traveling, in short, no. In fact my health forbids me… travel intellectuals are buffoonery,… …do not travel, they move to speak, then leaving a place to speak… …to go elsewhere where they will talk, and then, even during lunch,… …intellectuals speak of the place, so do not stop talking. I can not stand talk, talk, talk, can not stand it, to my mind,… …culture is finally, after all, linked to the word,… …and here I hate the culture. I can not stand it… …about it again on the clean separation between a word… …and a dirty deed, it nevertheless has been a great teacher, and the solution… …different,… …but will return to that, because there is a P which is connected to your work… …teacher and thus have the opportunity to speak of seduction. I wanted to go back to something that has eluded a bit, and it is a discipline,… …an effort that you will impose, although not really need, to read not know… …say that in the last 15 days the Polcke exhibition in the museum of modern art. You, however, quite often, if not every week,… …to see a movie or a painting exhibition. Not a scholar,… …you’re grown, do not feel any admiration for cultivated people, as you said Corresponds to what the practice, that effort? Is it a pleasure? Well, yes, it is a pleasure, finally, there is always a pleasure,… …but then I think the thing to lurk. Somehow I do not believe in culture, but I think in the encounters,… …and encounters with people are not, people always think that the meetings… …are made with people and that’s terrible. This is part of culture,… …the intellectuals among them, the Marranos in the debates, all that infamy. But meetings are not made with people, things are made, we are… …do with work. I find myself with a picture, I encounter a musical air, I find music, yes, I understand what you mean a match. When people want to add also a meeting with herself, people, things no longer work at all. That’s not a game, that’s the reason that the meetings are so disappointing. I, like you say, when I go on Saturday or Sunday to the movies, I’m not sure a meeting, but I go a bit, I’m on the lookout, I just found a picture, a movie, then it is formidable. To give an example because for me, as soon as you do something,… …it is to quit, this is the same time to stay there and quit. And in this case that the philosophy is also about how to get out of philosophy. But… …out of philosophy does not mean anything, and therefore must leave to stay indoors. Do not do anything, not to make a novel, first I would be unable,… …and even if I were, I would not say anything. I want to get out of philosophy for philosophy, is what interests me, ie… …well, I put the example as this is all after my death I can speak without modesty. I just made a book about a great philosopher who was Leibniz, and he wrote… …on a notion that seems very important, the fold, the notion of “fold”. Well I have done a book of philosophy on that notion a bit odd fold. What is happening to me with that? Then I receive letters, as always,… …but letters… Well there is insignificant letters, some are lovely and warm… …and move me much, there are letters that tell me… “Is fine, well what have you done” are letters of intellectuals… …to which they liked or did not like my book. And then I get two types of letters with which I rub my eyes and there are letters from people telling me:.. “His story is us” and I hear they are a people of an association… …which brings together about 400 people in France today and is increasing,… …ie the association of origami. They have a magazine sent to me and say:.. “We completely agree, what you do well we do.” Well, that’s what I won, and here I get another kind of letter, which speaks the same way,… …and says: “We are the fold”, but this is so wonderful In the above letter… no place… makes me think of Plato,… …because Plato was not just an abstract for my people, they… …are actually great writers and great writers very specific. Then in Plato there is a story that gives me joy, and certainly… …is linked to the beginning of philosophy, but perhaps talk about this later. The theme of Plato, he gives a definition, for example: What is politics? The politician is the shepherd of men, and here there are plenty of people who come and say,… …politician we, for example pastor comes and says, “Well, I seen the men, I am the shepherd of men, “comes the butcher and says” I feed the men, I am the shepherd of men ‘, come the rivals is that somehow I have had this experience, people come and say origami “fold us”… …others I have mentioned, I sent exactly the same type of letters,… …is amazing, are the surfers who say, in principle there is no relationship,… …but surfers say, “we completely agree, because what do we do? We continually introduce us into the folds of nature, that is for us the nature… …folds is a set of phones, then we enter the fold of the wave, Half of the fold of the wave, that’s our business, “inhabit the crease of the wave… …and indeed they speak beautifully about it, people are completely… …think, not content to go surfing, they also think. Let’s talk about them if one day we came to sports. But we started talking about games These are meetings when I say out of philosophy for philosophy, is something that has always happened,… …are meetings, I had an encounter with origami enthusiasts, I do not need them, otherwise surely would suffer a disappointment, I would… …and they more. I need not see them. I had a meeting… …on the south by origami enthusiasts, and I literally left the philosophy by philosophy,… …that’s a match. When I go to see an exhibition what? I’m on the prowl, looking for a picture that touches me, that excites me;… …when I do not see a movie theater, because it is too long, too disciplined,… …and they do not strike me as something so artistic, except in some cases, Except Bob Wilson and Carmelo Bene. I have the impression that the theater… …accompanies much to our time, but except for those cases,… …these extreme cases, the fact is that I can not sit still… …four hours at a bad seat for health reasons, so that eliminates the theater for me,… …but yes, in an exhibition of paintings or movies always have the impression I can meet with the idea. Yes, but there is no movie for pure entertainment? That is not culture, It is not culture, but no entertainment. All are enrolled in a job in the future… No, not a job, I mean are snares. I’m on the lookout for something that happens, saying: “Boy, is befuddling me that?” That amuses me a lot, is fun. So it’s not Eddie Murphy who upsets you… Who? Eddie Murphy is a… Who is it? It is an American comedian whose recent films have been real successes in the audience. I do not know, I just saw on TV Benny Hill, Benny Hill if I care, he said… …necessarily very good things but has reason to be interested. But when you leave is for a meeting? When I go, well, if there is no idea that out, if I do not think… “Ah well, had an idea.” What is a great filmmaker? This also applies to the filmmakers, what impresses me is the beauty… …for example one or as large as Minnelli Losey What impresses me about them? Unless you are persecuted for ideas, for an idea… You’re getting close too to the letter I. Idea For there. It appears that you have meetings, you have meetings with things rather than with people, are games. And do you have many meetings? To speak of a cultural period of time as necessary. Oh yes, I have said, origami enthusiasts and surfers. As if anything more beautiful, but they are meeting with the intellectuals. Indeed an encounter with an intellectual is for other reasons,… …if I like and I have a meeting with him is because he does. In your current job, your charm, all that. You have encounters with those elements… …with the charm of the people, work with people but not people, Who the hell cares about the people? Nothing at all… …and they can rub like cats. Yes, you have nothing else, if they have more than rubbing and barking is terrible. Well, let’s rich periods and poor periods of culture. At this point you think we are in a very rich, Finally I see often as you chafe at the TV,… …literary programs even when they are issued… …are very different names do you think we live in a period rich or poor in a particular period? If it is poor, but at the same time nothing distressing. Makes me laugh. At my age I think, well, not the first time there is poor periods. I’m thinking about what I’ve experienced since I have a certain age,… …that has excited me a bit, well I lived liberation… …the release was one of the richest periods I can imagine. We discovered or rediscovered everything. In the release we had the war,… …was too little, it was not silly, we discovered all the American novel, was Kafka, was a kind of world of discovery, was Sartre,… …good you can imagine what it was intellectually, what we discovered or rediscovered… …paints, etc.. In film you have to understand things like the great controversy,… …must be cast into the fire to Kafka, all that is unimaginable,… …and appears somewhat childish today, but it was truly a creative atmosphere. Very strong, then I know the years prior to 68 ‘,… …that was a deeply rich until after 68. Well, in the intervening periods there is very poor standard,… …how annoying is the fact of poverty but the insolence, the impudence of those in poor periods. These are much more evil than the talented people who are animated in rich periods. They are great or good-natured, because the other day I saw precisely Speaking of the controversy about Kafka, I saw that guy, laughing and such, he had never read Kafka. Sure, they are happy, the happiest silliest. They are those who believe, returning again to the question,… …that literature is a private matter. If we start from this consideration… …there is no need to read Kafka, reading almost anything because… …as long as you write beautifully and naturally found between pairs of Kafka. That’s not work, they do not work, but how you put it? Considering most serious things that these young people stupid, I recently went to the Cosmos to a movie… Of Paradjanov “? Paradjanov was not, he was admirable, it was a very moving film… …a Russian who made his film 30 years ago and has just died. Does the commissioner? Commissioner. What I found very moving… …is that the film was fine, could not be more perfect,… …but one thought with terror or with a kind of compassion that was a movie… …as they did the Russians before the world war, the types of Eisenstein, Dovzhenko,… …lacking nothing, the parallel assembly, especially the parallel editing, sublime;… …it’s as if nothing had happened after the war, as if nothing had happened in the movies,… …and thought “box is” the movie is good, but it was very strange. If it was good it was because, this is someone who had been on the job just as filming filming… …20 years ago, was not that bad but because it was fine, and it was wonderful for 20 years,… …while all that has happened since I did not know, ie… …had grown up in a desert, it’s terrible pass through a period desert… …born there, how terrible is to grow in a desert, something awful. I guess you must have a sense of loneliness,… …for people with 18 years for example… …to understand… how annoying is the poor periods, when things… …disappear no one notices, and that’s for one simple reason, when something goes… …not missing. Wiping the Stalinist period in Russian literature,… …but the Russians did not realize, I mean the bulk of the Russians,… …all the Russians did not notice. A literature… …that moved over the s. XIX disappears. We say “we are the dissidents” and such,… …but within the Russian people, their literature has disappeared,… …his paintings have disappeared, and nobody has noticed. To be aware today… …what happens today, obviously there are new people, young,… …which certainly has talent, but suppose the new Beckett today. I’ve had fear, I thought you’d say the new philosophers… But suppose there are published today the new Beckett. Well the end of the day came close to that Beckett was not published,… …and is clearly not would miss them. By definition… …a great author or a genius is someone who brings something new, and if it does not appear again Nobody minds, nobody misses, because I had no idea about it. If Proust, if Kafka had not been published we can not say that I would miss,… …if that other had burned all Kafka anyone could say “oh, how I miss”… …because nobody would have the slightest idea of what has disappeared. If the new Beckett today can not publish because of the current editorial system,… …we can not say “oh, how we miss.” I’ve heard… …a statement, I think in all my life I heard anything so impudent. I dare not tell who did say in a newspaper,… …especially since these things are never completely safe, But somebody has to do with the publishing world dared to say:.. “You know, nowadays no longer be making the mistakes he made Gallimard…” In Proust’s time? Refusing to publish Proust… because the means available to us today… Seekers heads, headhunters… Dream, dream believe today’s media to find the new Proust… …or new Beckett, as if they had a Geiger counter… …that before the new Beckett, or someone quite unimaginable… It is not known who could give back, because the counter would start to shake… …see the different thesis today. Today’s crisis is linked to three things,… …but not last, I am very optimistic. It defines a period of desert. First, the journalists have conquered the form book, Journalists have always written, it seems to me very well, but for a long time… …when journalists were put to make a book believed they were going to another form,… …ie it was not the same as writing your article in the newspaper,… …even conceivable that long writers… …journalism could do but that would not otherwise be produced. In this case the opposite happens. The journalist as a journalist has conquered… …book form, ie considered very normal to a book,… …mean little more than a newspaper article, and that can not be good. The second reason is that the idea is widespread that the whole world I could write because writing was the little matter of each,… …then with the family archives, both written and stored in memory,… …good because everyone has had a love story… …everyone has had a sick grandmother, a mother who died in appalling conditions… …they say “well, this can be done with a novel”… …and not true at all, nothing is further from the truth, then… What about the third? The third reason is that real customers have changed. One does not realize, unless people, unless of course you who are aware,… …but customers have changed, I mean Who are the customers of the TV? No longer are the listeners, TV customers are advertisers,… …they are the real clients, listeners get what they want and advertisers… …advertisers are the real clients. Like I said there is a risk and that the real customers of the publishers are not potential readers,… …but rather distributors. When distributors… …customers are truly publishers will happen,… …what matters to retailers is a rapid rotation, and rapid rotation implies the gossip from large markets… …rapid rotation, the system of best-sellers, etc, that is, that all literature,… …so to speak after the manner of Beckett, all literature is necessarily creative crushed. But that already exists, it transformed the public’s needs. Yes, but what defines a period of drought? Its fundamental symbol… …is invalid, literature, the disappearance of all literary criticism… …on behalf of trade promotion. But when I said… “Not serious” I mean that is obvious to be parallel circuits… …a circuit where there will be an entire black market, etc.. It is possible that a people living… Russia has finally lost its literature, but the recapture everything will be fixed,… …rich periods periods happen to poor… Woe to the poor. Woe to the poor. About the idea of parallel market, black… …items are processed a year ago for example,… …looks great in the books that come, is the war a year, another year is the death of parents,… …other has to do with nature… whatever you want, and yet… …nothing seems to be formed, then how can the revival? Have you seen emerge a rich period of time poor? Well if… after the liberation, was not exaggerated, then the 68 ‘. Among the great creative period of liberation and the beginning of the New Wave When was in the 60 ‘? And today… between 60 and 72. It was a new rich period, and then corrected. They sort of what Nietzsche says in the sense… …someone shoots an arrow in space and that constitutes a great danger,… …a community launches an arrow and falls out later someone comes to pick it up and send them elsewhere. In the writing goes well, the literature goes through deserts. Well patience, let’s move to D, and D need my papers… …because I read what appears in the Larousse,… …in the Petit Larousse illustré “Deleuze” also written with D. And he says, French philosopher, born in Paris in 1925… Perhaps it is no longer in the Larousse We are in 1988 I change every year. With Félix Guattari show the importance of desire and its revolutionary aspect… …against any institution, including the psychoanalytic. And as a work that shows all… …this, the Anti-Oedipus, 1972. Given that the eyes of the world… ‘re like the philosopher of desire, I would want us to speak of. So… what was the wish, considering the matter with the utmost simplicity, in the days of Anti-Oedipus? Well, in any case is not what he thought, I am sure,… …it was previously thought, even now among the most charming… …was highly ambiguous, a big misunderstanding, finally, a slight misunderstanding. I think we wanted to say something simple, we had a great ambition,… …namely, that until that book when you did a book was because I wanted to say something new,… …pretended that in one way or another, people had not previously understood… …what was the wish, that is, we carried out our work of philosophers,… …intended to propose a new concept of desire, but with the concepts… …why people do not believe that a concept is very abstract,… …and instead refer to things very simple, very specific as we shall see. No philosophical concept which refers to non-philosophical notions,… …is very simple, very concrete… In short, we meant easiest thing in the world. Until now you have just spoken of the desire for an object extraéis… …that is supposed to be the object of your desire,… …hence the desire to tell a woman, I make the trip, I want this and wish that, while we said something really simple: Ye will not never an object, a set desead, is not really complicated? And our question was: what is the nature of relationships between elements… …so that there is desire, so they become desirable? That is, I do not want a woman I am ashamed to say things like, Proust has said in Proust is very beautiful, do not want a woman… …desire to turn a landscape that is involved in this woman,… …a landscape that I can not know and I feel so that if the landscape unfold… …she wraps will not be happy, ie fail my desire, my wish will be unsatisfied. And here is a collection of two terms: woman – landscape, is quite… …different, when a woman says “I want a dress, that dress is not, it is clear… …that dress is not in the abstract, but what you want in any context,… …which is a context in his own life, she is organizing… …the desire not only in relation to a landscape, but with people who are your friends… …or people who are not their friends, their profession and so on. I do not ever want something and nothing more, Nor do I wish also to a set but I want “in” a whole;… …and the matter could go back to what we said earlier about alcohol:.. …drinking has never meant “desire to drink”, means “desire to drink”… …only while working, or just while I lie or rest, or go for the buddy to drink,… …go to this bar, put another way: there is hope that does not flow in an arrangement. So that for my desire has always been… a search for abstract… …which corresponds to the desire would say “constructivism.” Desire is to build… …a provision or an agency, build a set, the set of a skirt,… …a ray of sunshine, a woman, a street, that’s the arrangement or the arrangement of a woman,… …a landscape, a color… that’s it. It is therefore to build an agency,… …build a region, it is really…”agencies”. The desire to bring constructivism,… …hence we say, with the Anti-Oedipus tried to… Wait, I like about it… it was precisely because it is an arrangement… …he did say we were two for writing,… …that it was a whole, it was necessary Felix emerged at that time… …in your life as a writer, then Felix would be part of what we may have occasion… …to say about friendship, the relationship of philosophy to something Concerning friendship, but no doubt that with Felix did an agency, There are agencies that once again one does not solo, and then there are arrangements of two, Felix we did and I was an arrangement of two, was something that happened between them,… …that is, all in physical terms is not it, is such a difference,… …for which an event occurs we need a potential difference… …and there is a potential difference requires two levels, ie we need to have two,… …at the moment something happens, a flash, a river, a stream that belongs to the realm of desire;… …but a wish is just that, build, build… now, everything that happens… …is that we spend time building, for me every time someone says:.. “I want this,” that means it is building an arrangement, nothing more, the desire is just that. Then responds to the fact that if the desire is experienced, ie… “Is a set or an arrangement that the Anti-Oedipus… …be the first book you write with someone else? That is, with Félix Guattari? If, you’re right, no doubt needed to enter that agenciamiento… …as a way for us to write two, something that each of the two did not interpret… …or not living in the same way. So for something to happen it was necessary… …we entered the agency to pass something, what happened was the end of the day… …reaction of the dominant conceptions of desire, the dominant psychoanalytic concepts; Felix came of psychoanalysis, I was interested in these issues, all that was necessary… …to tell us that there were reasons to develop a concept… …constructive, deconstructive desire. Could you define better, faster that way, what is it, your mind,… …that the difference between constructivism and… …analytical conception? Well, not hard to understand, but… I think it’s very simple, that is, our attitude towards psychoanalysis… …is if you want multiple, but on the problem of desire,… …is that actually speak of desire psychoanalysts exactly Like the priests, not the only ones in the relationship, psychoanalysts are as priests,… …then how did they speak of desire? They speak in the form of a complaint… …by castration, castration is worse than original sin is a curse… …truly frightening about desire, then what we are trying to do with the Anti-Oedipus?, I think even now there are three points that link directly to Psychoanalysis,… …of these three points, as I’m concerned and I think either Félix Guattari,… …of these three points there is absolutely nothing to change, the fact is that we are convinced,… …believe that the unconscious is not a theater, not a place where they are Oedipus and Hamlet… …representing their scenes, there is a theater production is a factory,… …the unconscious produces, continues to produce, and therefore operates like a factory,… …is precisely the opposite of the psychoanalytic view of the unconscious as a theater… …in which always stirs a Hamlet or Oedipus to infinity. Our second… …theme is that delirium, which is closely linked to desire, that desire is somewhat delirious. Now if there is a delusion, if you look closely, you have nothing to do with what the… …psychoanalysis has retained the same, ie one not raving about his father… …or his mother, but raving about something completely different, and therein lies… …the secret of Delirium “is everyone raves about. On the history,… …geography, tribes, deserts, towns,… …the weather… …races are raving about it. The world of delusion is: “I am an animal, a black” Rimbaud, rave is where are my tribes? How can I dispose of my tribe? Surviving the wilderness, and so on. The desert is the geographical and political delirium, and… …determinations that psychoanalysis attributes family, so I can say that I am still so many years away, I feel… …able to say that psychoanalysis has never understood anything in a phenomenon of delirium. Delirious with his world, not raving to his little family, hence all that is mixed… …when he said “literature is not anyone’s private little… …affair” comes to the same thing, delirium is not a delusion… …about the father and mother. And then the third point is to be: the desire is always installed,… …build orders, arrangements, is installed in an arrangement and introduces several factors;… …while psychoanalysis does not stop us back to a single factor, and always the same, We refer to this single factor, sometimes Father, sometimes the mother… I know, sometimes the phallus, whatever, is completely ignorant of what is multiple,… …completely ignores constructivism, ie the assemblages. Take one example: A while ago we talked about the animal. For psychoanalysis the animal is… …say, a father image, a horse is an image of the father, give a damn the world, Consider the example of Little Hans. Little Hans is a boy on Freud has given the council gives its opinion and is seen a horse in the street… …falling while the postman covers whips while the horse kicks,… …lance kicks everywhere, in front of the cars in front of car… this is not a… …common sight on the street, which should be important to a child. The first time a guy sees a horse that falls into the street and a driver… …half drunk tried to lift strokes of the whip must be exciting,… …facing the street, the event in the street, sometimes bloody event, all that… …and then we heard as psychoanalysts speak of the father image, etc… …what works well is not his head. That desire has to do with seeing a horse… …falling and being beaten on the street with a horse die in the street, etcetera. But this is an agency, an agency fantastic for a child,… …clear is disturbing to the bottom. Another example, well, we talked about the animal,… …what an animal. However, an animal would not be the image of the father,… …animals usually go in packs or bands. There is a case that disturbs me a lot,… …is a text that I love, it is Jung, Jung is a text, the one who broke with Freud After a long collaboration, and Jung, Freud claimed to have had a dream,… …ossuary a dream, he dreamed of a charnel house, and Freud did not understand literally nothing,… …says all the time: “If you ever dreamed of a bone is someone’s death”… …that means the death of someone, and really keeps telling Jung:.. “I’m not talking about a bone, I dreamed of an ossuary. Freud… …did not see the difference between an ossuary and a bone… …ie an ossuary bones are one hundred thousand, one hundred forgiveness bones, bones thousand, ten thousand… I know. Well, that’s a multiplicity, an agency, I walk through an ossuary What does that mean? What I went through which the desire? In an arrangement it is always a collective, collective… constructivism, etc., that is desire. So why where my desire passes through those thousand skulls, those thousand bones? Where do I pass my desire in the pack? At what point, what is my position in the pack? Am I outside the flock? “I stand inside in the middle of the pack? These are all phenomena of desire, it is the desire… But that collective agency, given that the Anti-Oedipus is a book written in 1972,… …and endorses the best time after 68 ‘, ie it was all a reflection… …of those years against psychoanalysis continuing his business small little store. And I just forgot to say: delirious delirium the races and tribes. The people raving, raving to the history and geography, I think it agrees with the 68 ‘. That is, have contributed, I think, in all that close air and unhealthy… …delusions of pseudo-families. People do that has escaped the delusion was that,… …if I decide not to rave to rave about my childhood, my little private matter, Delirium is cosmic, are raving about the end of the world, particles,… …on electrons, and not mom or dad obviously. Well, just about the collective agency of desire, I think in some contradictions. I remember in Vincennes,… …in 72, in college were people who gave effect to that desire,… …it used to lead to collective love, in short, I had learned very well. With this I would like to be more precise, because it was very mad at Vincennes… …as psychoanalysis with combatíais schizoanalysis, everyone thought I was very well be crazy, and were unlikely cases among students. I would like then to tell me some stories about Weird… …about these misinterpretations about the desire… Well misinterpretations could quote them in the abstract, consisted… …on two things: There were two cases say otherwise is to be the same,… …there were those who thought that the desire was Spontaneity,… …and at that time there were all sorts of spontaneous movements, and then there were other… …who thought that the desire was the party. For us it was neither one thing nor the other,… …but that did not matter anyway because they agency-makers/empowerments… …were built, there were things that even the crazy… there were so many, of all types. Then it was part of what was happening in Vincennes at that time… …but had their discipline crazy huh? They had their way… did the speaking,… …their interventions, they also entered an arrangement had their arrangements;… …but came very well in an arrangement, there was a kind of cunning,… …of understanding with the benevolence of the insane, but in the realm of theory… …was practically a series of agencies that were made and fell apart. Theoretically, the contradiction was to think: if good, desire is the spontaneity So we were called “spontaneously”, or is the party… but it was not. The so-called philosophy of desire was merely to tell people:.. “Do not go to a psychoanalyst,” “Do not interpret”, “experience agency, looks agency-makers/empowerments… …which I agree, that everyone seeks, “seek an arrangement. I would say that an agency, for me and Felix is that he thought otherwise… …because perhaps in this regard… but I would maintain that there are four components agency-makers/empowerments… …roughly four need not be four instead of six… …an arrangement refers to states of affairs, to find that each state of affairs… …that suit it a little, well, a moment ago we were talking about drinking,… …taste for a bar… some who prefer a bar, etc… That’s a state of affairs… …having the dimensions of the Talent Agencies of statements, the types of statements,… …and each has his style, ie has a certain way of speaking. Well, in the bar are the cronies and then there is a certain way of speaking… …with buddies, each bar has its own style, I mean a bar but could apply… …anything else. An arrangement consists of states of affairs and statements,… …style of enunciation. That this is something that is not usually spoken but… …that is really very interesting, history is made of that. When a new type of statement? For example in the Russian revolution, When do the Leninist type statement? How, how? In 68… when the first set considered the 68 ‘? It is very complex, every agency involved styles of enunciation,… …and also implies territories… each one gets its territory, there are territories. Even when we’re in a room you choose your territory: I enter a room I do not know, I look for the territory, ie the place where I’ll feel better in the room, and then there are processes which we fully… …call deterritorialization, ie the means by which we left the territory. I would say that an arrangement has four dimensions: states of affairs,… …statements, territories and movements of deterritorialization, and that is where desire flows… “So you do not feel responsible for people who took drugs or who took… …much to the letter the Anti-Oedipus because that’s not a problem, I mean, no, not like Cato who encourages young people to make crap? One always feels a little responsible for all… What are the effects of anti-Oedipus? I tried to say the right things. In any case I never think it is my only… …honor, I’ve given the ready with these things, I never said a student:.. “Come on, you’re right” I have always done everything in my power… …to succeed, because I’m too sensitive… …to the insignificant that makes someone become a rag, what drink?… …very well. While I could never take away the right people,… …whatever they do, I have no desire to take away the reason,… …but I think we should be extremely careful to recognize the height of which… …that can not continue. To drink, that take drugs, they do what they want,… …cops are not, ie we are not parents, I have no reason to stop them,… …but do everything possible to not become a rag. Thus, when there is a risk that can not stand. Stand perfectly… …someone is taking drugs, but someone who takes drugs in certain ways,… …so I do not know… something wild, makes me think, “It is going to explode”,… …and that can not stand. Especially when it comes to a young guy, you Young people talk about, I can not bear to watch as a young bursts, is unbearable… …busting a guy who comes to suicide… incus by bullshit… …negligence, because he drinks too so… I have always divided… …between the impossibility of reason to take someone, and the absolute desire,… …or absolute refusal to become a rag, in short, in this case is… …a very narrow canyon, I can not say there early, you leave the quagmire… …as you can every time, and try to take the role of people,… …at this time means trying to save the smallest as far as possible,… …but save does not mean do they go in the right direction but to prevent… …they become tattered, the only thing I do not. No, it was the effects of Anti-Oedipus, do there? Well, were I said, converting them to become tattered… …at the time, or get a guy who was developing… …a clear principle of schizophrenia get better, that does not end… …repressive in a hospital… those things. Or in the case of someone who had had enough,… …an alcoholic who was screwing up, do everything possible to stop drinking. Because this was a revolutionary book that appeared as… …the eyes of the enemy, the book of psychoanalysts,… …as a defense of the permissibility and said that everything was desire. That… when you read that book always felt extreme caution. The lesson was: “Do not become a rag.” When… …oppositions set is not left to the complex schizophrenic… …the guy in the hospital, and terror was for us to conceive a child hospital Anything but that. And I would even say that the praise of a certain value of the trip,… …what the anti-psychiatry at that time called the trip, the schizophrenic process,… …was a way of avoiding, to conjure up the tattered production, production… …of schizophrenics, the manufacture of schizophrenics. Do you think, to end the Anti-Oedipus, which continues to impact today, 16 years later? Yes, it’s a good book. Then there is a good concept of the unconscious… In my view the only case in which there was a good concept of the unconscious, I refer to two points, three points:.. …multiplicities of the unconscious, as delirium delirium delirium world and not family… …ie cosmic delirium, delusion of races, tribal delusion, that’s good;… …and the unconscious as a machine, as a manufacturer and not a theater. I have nothing to change those points, which I believe are still quite… …novel, because everything has been rebuilt psychoanalysis, for my hope,… …is a book that perhaps rediscover, a challenge to be rediscovered. Well E, E is childhood. Always say that your life began in the Avenue Wagram,… …born in the 17th district of Paris, and then you lived with your mother on the street Daubigny,… …at 17, and now live near the Cliché Place neighborhood, a poor neighborhood,… …street in the 17th district of Bizerte. As will be dead when this movie is issued does not matter… …they are known, so we can give your address. But I wonder, first, Is your family was what is usually called a bourgeois family, right-wing? Unless I’m mistaken… I always tell where I lived when you ask me, because the truth is that it is a fall:.. …start in the top 17, pretty, and after child, in my childhood,… …in the crisis before the war, I have childhood memories of the crisis, was no higher… …but one of the memories was the number of vacant flats, people had no real money… …flats for rent and there everywhere, so my parents had to leave the beautifully furnished… …the top 17, near the Arc de Triomphe, and then declined, it remained well… …the Boulevard Malesherbes, a street: the street Daubigny, and later… …when I returned to Paris, and more, we were on the extreme border of 17, 17 handmade,… …a little proletarian street Mollet, Toussaint street… and not far away the house… …which was Verlaine. So it’s a fall, I do not know where I will be in… …a few years, but certainly this seems not going to fix… Maybe in Saint-Quen? Maybe. But yes my family is a bourgeois family, right-no, because… …was on the left and now… you have to put in a position I have many memories of childhood, I have many because for me… …memory is rather a power that should repel the past instead of convening,… …need much memory to repel the past, precisely because it is a. So I have this memory, to me, even those posters that said “rent to rent”… …with chains and posters and such, then I lived quite the crisis and all that. And what year is it? I can never remember the years, I know between 1930 and 1935 or… 193… I was 10… People no longer had money. And I was born in 25, yes, but I remember the concerns… …for money, that was what kept me going to study with the Jesuits. My parents… …had more money was destined to go to the Jesuits, but then I went to school… …by the crisis, but the other aspect… I can not remember… There was another aspect of the crisis… well, never mind. Anyway, then came the war and my father… …family was indeed the right, yes because I have a very vivid memory, never recovered… …better understand why some employers today. They have retained Popular Front terror incredible, perhaps even happens with patterns… …who did not see it, but good still must be some who experienced it,… …for them the popular front has been as the image of chaos, worse than the 68 ‘,… …and remember that with all this right-wing bourgeoisie saw the sign, all were anti-Semitic… …and Leon Blum was something awful, hate that Mendès-France had to endure,… …but that hatred is nothing compared to the hatred that won Blum, Blum was actually because… …the first, the reaction caused by the holiday pay was impressive… “The first known Jewish leftist? Blum was worse than the devil, was the sign, can not be understood as Pétain… …could take power as he did without considering the degree of anti-Semitism in France,… …of the French bourgeoisie at that time. The hatred towards social measures Blum government was appalling. My father was a little “cross fire”… …but that was common at that time was finally right a family of uneducated,… …is a cultivated bourgeoisie, but mine is totally ignorant, but my father was… …what is called an exquisite man, very gracious, very good, very charming,… …and I rather thought pretty amazing… all that violence against all. He came from the war of 14, all that takes place in a world that you do not understand… …well, talk about features, but one can not imagine the details. Those veterans… …the war of 14 and at the same time that anti-Semitism, the regime of the crisis,… …the crisis, what crisis was that no one understood anything? What profession was? He was an engineer. I remember two of their activities had invented or exploited… …a product to waterproof roofs, waterproofing of roofs,… …but with the crisis and had only a single worker, an Italian,… …and also a foreigner, everything was very bad… then the business collapsed… …and could relocate in a more serious company that manufactured these junk leads… …and equipment for aircraft, but there came a time that no longer served… …completely ruined, to the point that in 1939 to stop the aircraft Germans, on the edge of Paris, there was something like… I do not know, pigeons… …then when the Germans took over the factory where my father… …were more reasonable and projected it around the manufacture of rubber boats,… …was more effective, and no longer produced balloons and zeppelins. As for me, I attended the birth of the war, I remember vividly, was about fourteen,… …so that people knew they had a year to Munich,… …who had won a year, some months that the war was… that was chained:.. …crisis, war, all that was a very tense atmosphere, people older than me had to live moments… …horrific. Then when the Germans came to indeed left behind Belgium and France rushed… what came later, and this I saw. My parents spent their… …summer vacation in Deauville, then turned and left us there… …, we had a mother who had never been separated from us,… …but soon we find again in a pension and she confided to an old lady I had a pension, so I attended a school year in Deauville, in a hotel… …that was transformed into an institute. My Home Germans were not far away… oh no, no, no… I get confused, it was the beginning of the war, however was in Deauville. Everything that happened when I spoke just now of paid leave I remember more so because the arrival of the first workers to leave… …paid at the Deauville Beach was something to be seen. For the filmmaker that… …must be a masterpiece, because when you saw those people who saw… …the sea for the first time, was something prodigious. I could meet someone who only… …had seen the sea for the first time in his life long after birth, was splendid. There was a girl of the Limousin region that saw the sea for the first time. It is true that if something is unimaginable when you have not seen is the sea. One can think of before seeing it, the sea is something great, infinite, but one does not add much to it;… …but when you see the sea, that girl… I know it was 4 or 5 hours before the Sea… …completely stupid, like an idiot from birth, and never tired… …to see a spectacle so sublime, so grandiose. Then, on the beach of Deauville I had always been a beach reserved for the bourgeoisie, which was his property,… …suddenly landed working families, families with paid holidays,… …and people who clearly had never seen the sea, and that was great. If class hatred was something, was in words and women, the impossibility… …that the beach was frequented by such people, so it was very hard, I believe that the bourgeoisie could never forget… May 68 was nothing beside that. But he says anything more than the fear you had, this incredible fear that you mentioned. That fear had no respite. If there was a holiday to the workers… …bourgeois privileges then all disappeared. It was also about the… …places, territorial adjustments. If the maids went to the beach of Deauville I do not know… it was like suddenly back the dinosaurs. It was an attack,… …was worse than the Germans, was worse than German tanks… …reached the beach, you know? It was indescribable. People from another world, right? Above all it is only a detail, what happened in factories patterns… …have never forgotten. I even fear for them is hereditary. This is not to say that 68 ‘is not nothing, 1968 was something else,… …but also preserve the memory of the 68 ‘, but hey, I was in Deauville… …without parents, my brother and such, when the Germans broke through truly… …then yes, that I stopped being an idiot, because I was a kid pretty mediocre… …from the school standpoint, of any interest in any point of view,… …made collections of stamps or something like that was my main activity, and in case was void, and I, I think that happens to many people, people who wakes up in a given time… …always someone awake, and I in that hotel institute had become a kind… …young man who seemed quite extraordinary because he spoke very well, and that… …was the absolute awakening for me, I was lucky enough to find a guy. Now, this guy,… …then became relatively well known because I first had a somewhat famous father,… …and then undertook many activities within the leftism, but much later, Halbwachs called. Pierre Halbwachs, the son of the sociologist,… …at that time was very young and had a curious head, was rather high,… …and had but one eye, meaning he had one eye open and one eye closed, not birth… …but it was like that, it seemed almost a Cyclops, had short hair and curly like a goat… …like a sheep. When it was cold turned green or purple, had a health… …extremely fragile, as had been declared unfit for military and licensed… …during the war. For me it was a revelation that person, full of enthusiasm, I do not know which course was, I suppose third, or second bachelor’s,… …and we communicated about something good for me was moving, I discovered something We talked about Baudelaire, read very well, and we became close friends, could not be otherwise… …because he saw that impressed me greatly, and I remember that in winter Deauville Beach took me, and I was literally glued to it,… …was his pupil, had found in him a teacher. Then we sat… …in the dunes, and there with the wind, the sea was great, I remember reading “Les nourritures terrestrial”… …recited with a loud voice, there was nobody on the beach in winter, ie… …recited “nourritures them land” open heart, and I was sitting next to him… …a bit embarrassed if someone came and thought: “How strange it all is”… …and he read, but they were very different readings, I did discover Anatole France, Baudelaire, Gide… …those were the main, were their great love and was transformed,… …absolutely transformed, so that soon and give that talk, that guy… …with the pint I had was the great eye and so on, that guy who followed him everywhere,… …went together to the beach and so on, so my worry was soon home… …and called me and told me I was responsible for the absence of my parents and I wore… …guard against certain relationships, I do not understand anything… …because the relationship pure, undeniable, unspeakable are and were those,… …and only later realized that was supposed to Pierre Halbwachs was a… …pederast dangerous, then said, “I’m upset, my hostess tells me that… … I do not see it,… …that this is not normal, it is not convenient…”and he said:.. “Listen, do not worry, no old lady can resist me, I will go see her and see how he calms” And despite everything, was quite ready, there was room for doubt, that… …did not reassure me at all because I had a hunch it was not quite sure… …that the hostess was convinced and was indeed a catastrophe,… …went to the old landlady who immediately alerted my parents, it was urgent… …come back, there was a highly suspicious person had failed… …completely in its objective, but then the Germans in this reach, in all this strange war, Germans arrive, there was nothing to do, and my brother and I went cycling… …to find my parents had been led to Rochefort,… …the factory had moved to escape the Germans, so we went biking Deauville Rochefort, and we hear a speech by Pétain, one famous… …infamous speech in a shelter in village, then we cycle the two and… …and a crossing we ran into a car then worthy of a cartoon in which he was… …old Halbwachs Halbwachs’s son, an esthetician named Bayer, and were not… …far from La Rochelle, was his destiny. But anyway, I count only to say that then I found… …to Halbwachs, I know him well, he felt no admiration for him, the truth is that… I finally showed at least some and that is that… it was at age 14… …at the time that I admired, it was then that he was right. Then back to Paris, with some regret, to the Lycee Carnot, holidays… …have ended, lives a strange war, and there at the Lycee Carnot get your classes… …of philosophy, I think in High School at that time was professor Merleau-Ponty,… …but curiously you’re not in the class of a teacher, you’re in class… …of someone who is not Merleau-Ponty, it is called Viale, Professor Viale, I think it was you who told me the name… If Mr. Viale, I retain very fond memories of him, that looked at random, I played in that class. He could have attempted a Merleau-Ponty, I did not know why, but I remember he made me feel something that was literature,… …but since the first courses in philosophy I knew it was what to do. I remember things scattered, for example I remember very well that he was in philosophy when it became known,… …that spread like wildfire, as of Oradour, where the SS massacred 650… …people in retaliation for the bombings of the maquis, then had happened… …that and there was a kind of, well, I must say that I was in college, which was a… …class somewhat politicized, sensitive to issues Nazis. He was the kind of Guy Moquet. There was a strange atmosphere in that class, if anything like that ad recall… …of Oradour was impressive for boys from 17… When passing the entrance examination to college? 16, 17, 18… …18 is the normal age Yes, if I remember well. Viale was a teacher who spoke very low,… …was old, and I loved him dearly, immensely, so Merleau-Ponty I only have the memory of the melancholy, the Lycee Carnot is large and there… …a railing that runs through the first floor and stood there looking wistful Merleau-Ponty and looking at all the boys who were down playing and shouting, I feel very melancholy, as if thinking: “My God, what am I doing here”… …while Viale, whom he loved, he finished his career… …and also struck up a friendship with him close, very close, and as we lived not far away… …each other mutually were accompanying us, we kept… …to speak and there I learned that one of two things: either doing philosophy, or else he would do nothing… “Since the first courses? Yes, yes, yes. It’s like when I learned of the existence of such strange things as… …what they called concepts, that It worked on my the same effect… …for others it is an encounter with a character of fantasy novel,… …god how exciting it was to read, to discover… The Count of Monte Cristo… …or M. de Charlus, or Vautrin or otherwise. Or Eugenie Grandet. Then when I learned things like… what Plato called an idea,… …that seemed so alive… I felt very encouraged,… …knew it was for me, that this would be for me. And since you were always a good student, the better? Yes, yes, there are over school problems, from Halbwachs was good,… …was good in letters and even in Latin, it was good,… …was a good philosophy student and I became very good student. I want to go back a bit… the classes were not politicized… …at the time, something happened in that particular kind of Guy Moquet?… Well, could not be politicized during the war, we were not politicized,… …boys had no doubt that since I was 17 or 18 were in the resistance;… …but there were no conditions, as you understand, the people who were… …in resistance was silent, as if they were idiots, so I can not speak… …politicized or not, there are different… there were supporters of Vichy… Was the French action? No, it was the “French Action” was much worse, were those of Vichy. We can say that can not be compared to the politicization that can be… …in peacetime, because the items were really active resisters,… …resilient youth or young people who had to do with resistance,… …so that had nothing to do with politicization, was much more secret… In your class youth who had sympathized with the resistance? What they were talking about it? Well yes, I can quote you a Guy Moquet, which was very strong,… …and had to be murdered by the Nazis a year later. And talking about it? Sure. As I say the sound immediately, immediate communication… …as of Oradour is a topic of secret communications,… …and was something of wireless telegraphy, it was learned that think the same day,… …knew all the schools of Paris. For me it is one of the most moving things,… …know what to Oradour, learn immediately, nothing else happened. Well, to end the Children, if it can ever end, Your childhood seems to have little relevance to you, ie you do not speak… …nor is it a reference. One has the impression… …that no child is more important for you… If you can not be otherwise, is somewhat based on what I just said. I believe that the activity of writing has nothing to do with a “proper subject”… …which does not mean you do not put it all his soul. Literature… …has a deep and fundamental to life, but life… …is more than personal. All that brings in literature something of the life of the person,… …the writer’s personal life, is naturally annoying, unfortunate nature… …because it prevents you see… really cut his little private affair. My childhood… …never been that and not because I produce horror, what matter to me if anything is… …as we said there is “becomings animals” that man has, there are “becomings child.” Writing is always becoming something, but for that very reason, one does not write by writing, I think you write so little life pass you, they will happen to you, whatever it is… …there are things you write on… in short life, that is. And one becomes something Writing is becoming, but is becoming less what you want becoming a writer,… …and do whatever you want, less file. Well, the file I do not deserve less respect, there is nothing bad, because you do file, but only… …is relevant to one thing, another thing… do you have reason to file,… …just respond to something else and that through the file one’s reach,… …maybe a little of that thing, but the very idea of talking about my childhood, for example, I think,… …not only because it has no interest, but because it is the opposite of all literature. It is the opposite, if I may… look, I’ve been reading… I say what everyone has said, the writers have always said,… …but I came across a book I did not know… everyone has their holes,… …this is a great Russian poet: Mandelstam, just yesterday I was reading it… It has a very beautiful name, you could say… Ossip, Ossip Mandelstam. In this book says… it’s the kind of phrase that I… …moves, the real role of a teacher to publish a text, make love… …a text to some kids. Halbwachs was what did for me. Then he says:.. “I do not understand something… I could never understand people like Tolstoy” Even Tolstoy, love of family archives, with their… …stories of domestic memories, then things start to get serious. I repeat:.. “My memory is not of love but of hostility, and does not work to play,… …but to dismiss the past, “… put it aside for a mediocre intellectual origin… …like him, memory is useless, it has more to talk about books you’ve read and already has… …made his autobiography, as I go with Halbwachs, while happy for generations… …speech in the epic hexameter and chronic, in my case there is a sign of emptiness,… …vacuum, and between me and the abyss lies a century, a time filled ditch mumbling… What would my family say? I do not know, was born stuttering… …and yet had something to say. About me and many of my contemporaries… …stuttering birth weight. We learned not to speak but to babble,… …and only paying the ear to the growing noise of the century and once bleached… …the foam of its crest, we acquire a language. Well, I dunno… …but for me this means… What do you mean? Attest that writing is life,… …is witness to the life… and therefore “with” in the sense that we said… …of animals that die, is stuttering tongue. Make literature… …dip into childhood, is the typical form of literature to the small private affair… …one, is what stirs your guts, literature is indeed a supermarket, bazaar,… …are best-sellers, is bullshit. If one pushes the language to the point… …in the beginning to stutter, it is not easy, not enough to stutter… BEBEBE… …if you do not get to that point then maybe in the literature as well as… Well push to force the language to a limit is a becoming animal… …of language itself, and writer, and there is already a becoming child… …but not about his childhood, it becomes a child, but not his children,… …not anyone else’s, the world’s children, children of a world. Then those who were interested in his children to be walking and then continue,… …is fine, make the literature they deserve. If anyone is interested… …in childhood that is Proust for example, in order, the tasks of the writer not… …consist of rummaging through the family archives, they are not interest in their… …children, nobody cares… nobody is worth anything if your not interested… …childhood, because that is another task: becoming child through writing, go to… …a childhood of the world, restore a world’s children,… …that is a task, these are the tasks of literature. Is the Nietzschean critique? Nietzsche among others, Nietzsche knew, but knew it Mandelstam,… …all know, all writers know, this is becoming repeat, I can not find another way to say this: Writing is indeed becoming,… …but is not becoming a writer or scribe oneself or not… …and not because he had a love story and I have to make a novel,… …it is unclean think things like that… not only mediocre, it is unclean. Then there is an exception to the rule: Nathalie Sarraute, a great writer,… …has now written a book called “Enfance”, does a little weakness? Not at all, then I agree with you, Natalie Sarraute is a… …great writer, “Enfance” is not a book about her childhood,… …is a book in which she testifies… reinvented. A little devil’s advocate Yes, I’ve noticed it, but it seems very dangerous. She invents a childhood of the world What is it that after all the cares of your childhood? A Natalie Sarraute, this is a number of stereotyped formulas… …that brings the wonders, which perhaps was also the last words… who was it? Tchekov… “I’m dying,” Tchekov last words. She draws… …good for small heard someone say “how are you?”.. What does that mean? Extracts of a world language, the language proliferates on itself… Natalie Sarraute clearly not interested on his own childhood. I do not know how to interpret what you say… Claude Sarraute maybe interested, but not Natalie Sarraute Yes, yes, I agree, but listen: I have no objection to what you say, but Meanwhile, in the first place, was a preparation in your earliest childhood… …what pushed you to the literature, that is, you reject your child… …as an enemy and as hostile, first age “since you did? and Is childhood a preparation? On the other hand children back in gusts, even puffs… …repugnant, then why must have a preparation? A daily discipline? I guess that goes by itself, because childhood is like everything;… …should distinguish a good childhood of poor children, what’s what… …it interesting? Well, the relationship with the father, mother,… …and memories of childhood, in the sense of “aahh, my father, my mother,”… …it does not seem very interesting, I found very interesting and very rich so if… …but certainly not relevant to the writing. There are other aspects of childhood,… …spoke before a horse dies on the street before there were automobiles,… …then recover the notion of child is a child “, that is, should say:” I was a child is nothing “… …but I’m not only the child who was, I was a child and others, I was a child any… …and I’ve always seen what was interesting in that a child either. Not much I was such a child, finally, I saw a horse die on the streets before there were automobiles, I do not speak for me but for those who saw it, that’s fine, perfect… Becoming a writer is a task, it might be a factor that caused… Dostoevsky saw it,… …and there is a great page of Dostoevsky, I’m pretty sure, in Crime and Punishment… …on the horse that died in the street. Saw the dancer Nijinsky. Nietzsche saw it. He saw in Turin, I think, a dying horse that way, that is, is fine… “And you saw the manifestations of the Popular Front? I saw demonstrations of the Popular Front when I saw my father discussed… …between his honesty and his anti-Semitism. I was “a” child. I have always maintained that no one understands the meaning of the indefinite article, of:.. …stick to “one” child, “a” horse is exhausted, is whipped, and so on. I do not mean… …the indefinite article is of extreme wealth. In all manifolds, back to that. If, on the multiplicities Well, let’s go to F, let us then: I chose the word loyalty,… …to talk of friendship, because 30 years are a friend of Jean-Pierre Braunberger and not a day goes by that you must call or you see yourself… almost like a couple… …anyway you are faithful in friendship, you are faithful to Félix Guattari, Jerome Lindon, Elie, Jean-Paul Manganaro, with Pierre Chevalier… Your friends are… …very important to you: Francoise Chatelet, Michel Foucault, who were your friends,… …has paid tribute to them as friends with great fidelity. You wanted to know if you consider just the impression if, for you,… …fidelity is necessarily linked to friendship or vice versa? No loyalty. Yes, it’s easy, because it is a F A further it is already done Well it’s different to fidelity, A is friendship. Why does one become friends? It is a matter of perception, There also is the fact of not having common ideas for what to say… …have something in common with someone? I do not mean banality eh? When one has understood that explanation. It is common ideas from… …but a common language, or a pre-common language. Some people do not understand… …nothing to say but say simple things, but say, “Pass the salt” I have to ask: “But what is he saying?”. By contrast there are those who talk to me… …of a highly abstract and do not agree with them… but I understand everything, I understand everything I say, well what I mean is that I have something… …to tell them and they have something to say, this is not at all in the community of ideas,… …it is a mystery, it is this sort of indeterminate background… Because if it is true that there is a great mystery, having something… …to tell someone, so well understood without common ideas,… …not attributable to… I have a hypothesis: Each of us… …is able to capture a certain kind… …certain type of charm, the charm is a perception, what I call charm? Here it is not stories that I intend to introduce homosexuality in friendship,… …at all, but a gesture of someone thinking of someone,… …even before being significant, a sign of someone, a modesty of someone… …all these are sources of charm, but then come to life to such an extent… …vital to the roots, so that one becomes friends with someone. If you take sentences, even for someone… …that can only be true if the person who says it is vulgar or noble… A type of sentence, should look for examples but have no time,… …also each change of examples, but for every one of us,… …when you hear such a phrase is said, “my god, what I hear? What is this filth?, Then it is better to think you’re going to say something… …like that and then amend it, are phrases that can not be amended… …inversely with respect to the charm. There are phrases insignificant… …but phrases that have such charm, that attest to such delicacy… …they immediately think: “That’s mine” Not in the sense of ownership,… …but it’s yours is mine. Well, at that moment is when friendship is born… …or when it can be born, so it is certainly a matter of perception,… …to perceive something which suits you or teach you, that opens that shows you something, that is. Is always to decipher signs? Yes, that is. You’re right, just trying to decipher signs That is what we have: someone gives signs, one receives them or not get, but… …to my mind all the friendships are based on these same bases,… …be sensitive to signs that someone issued, that said I think that… …is the reason that one can spend hours with someone without saying a word,… …or preferably by saying… I do not know, saying things completely meaningless, saying… …usually comic friendship is also To you I really like the comic couple, like Bouvard & Pecuchet, Mercier & Camier… Yeah, me with Jean-Pierre are a pale reproduction of Mercier & Camier. Indeed Jean-Pierre… I’m tired all the time,… …with fragile health, Jean-Pierre is a hypochondriac and our conversations… …are the type Mercier & Camier, one asks the other: “How is it going?”… …and the other responds: “I’m busting, but not exactly with enthusiasm.” It is a charming phrase you like, or another that says “How is it going?”… …and another, “like a cork tossed by the sea”, are wonderful phrases. With Felix is different, I would not be Félix Mercier & Camier, would rather Bouvard & Pecuchet… …a little more or less. With this we have thrown in everything that we… …done together, in our work an encyclopedic attempt to tell the truth… …had the same brand of hats, and then attempt to build an encyclopedic book… …that addresses all knowledge. With other replicas pávidas would be Laurel and Hardy. Not that you have to imitate these great partners, but that friendship is that,… …great friends are Bouvard & Pecuchet, Mercier & Camier, Fat & Skinny,… …although they are squabbling and fighting, it does not matter. Obviously the question… …friendship is a mystery, I mean that closely relates to philosophy,… …because philosophy, as everyone says, contains “friend” in the word, I mean that the philosopher is not primarily a scholar, which would laugh… …everybody, is presented literally as a “friend of wisdom” and that the word friend. What the Greeks invented it was not wisdom, but such a funny idea… …the “friend of wisdom”, what may mean lover of wisdom? That is the problem of what is philosophy? Which may mean that the lover of wisdom? It means that the lover of wisdom is not wise, then clear… …there is an easy interpretation, it would be: tends toward wisdom. But still do not understand anything,… …then what is it that fits the philosophy of friendship? And what kind of friendship? Does it have to be in relationship with a friend? What was that for the Greeks? What means “friend”? I repeat again: if we interpret as friend… …one that tends towards, certainly is one who seeks wisdom without being wise. But what does it mean to claim wisdom? It means that there is another that seeks… …you never will be a co-suitor, if a suitor of the girl,… …then there are several suitors, the girl has several suitors… ‘re not the promise of wisdom, only suitor… …that’s it… just pretend to wisdom. Then there are pretenders to wisdom… …and the Greeks invented what? Well, I see that is the invention… …of the Greeks, in their civilization invented the phenomenon of the pretenders… is huge,… …invented what was the idea that there was a rivalry of free men… …in all domains, in other places there is the idea of rivalry… …of free men, but in Greece itself: eloquence… hence they are so quarrelsome, it is the rivalry of freemen, friends are made suits each other… The boy or girl have suitors of Penelope’s suitors…, suitors are in order, that is the quintessential Greek phenomenon. To me the Greek phenomenon… …the miracle is not rivalry but free men, and that explains the friend, claim to philosophy, There is a rivalry to something towards what? Well, we can interpret, considering the… …history of philosophy, there are those for whom philosophy is indeed linked to the mystery of… …friendship, there are those for whom it is linked to the mystery of dating, then there… …walk very far…”I fiançailles rompu” of Kierkegaard. No philosophy… …without the letters of engagement, without the first love… But as we said before… …first love is perhaps the repetition of the last, perhaps the ultimate love, philosophy… Perhaps the couple will have some importance in philosophy… is very curious. I think we will not know what is the philosophy until they have resolved the issues… …of the “bride”, the “friend” what is the friend? And so on. That’s what I find very interesting What Blanchot, friendship? I had an idea… Yes, yes, Blanchot and Mascolo two men are typically the current, in relation to philosophy or even thought, give importance to friendship, but in a very specific meaning, since we do not say we have to have a friend… …to be a philosopher, to think “, but consider that friendship is a category or… …condition for the exercise of thought, that’s what counts. No friend indeed… …but friendship, as a category, is a condition to think. Hence Mascolo-Antelme relationship, hence Blanchot statements about friendship. I have the idea… of mistrust of his friend. For my friend is friendship-doubt, that’s the idea of Greek troublemaker… there is a verse that I like a German poet, that is between two lights, which he defines… the time in which there… …be wary even of his friend, even the dog and the wolf that is said, there is a time… …in which we must be wary even of his friend, I distrust my Jean-Pierre… …like the plague, I am suspicious of my friends, but wary with so much joy that… …can not do any harm, because they make me what I want it… …find funny… there is much understanding, lots of community among friends, or the girlfriend or with.. seems to me very well all that, but neither should we believe… …that these events will be trying to smaller private affairs. Also… …in this case, when people say friendship, when one says the lost bride, etc. the question is under what conditions can exercise thought. For example, Proust believes that friendship is nothing, not only for him as he was concerned, but… …because for thought there was nothing to think about friendship, change There is an artery to think of jealous love, and is conditioned to thinking. I would soon issue a final plantearte about your friends… With Chatelet is another case because you were with him in the release and study together, but you had a friendship that Foucault was not a couple, it was not that… …have with Jean-Pierre, or Felix, or Elie or with Jerome, as we are… …talking about a movie about the others… but Foucault There are very deep friendship, and however distant, was something much more… …formal for someone who was outside, then what was this friendship? He was undoubtedly the most mysterious to me, maybe we met too late… Foucault was a great grief to me, and as he had enormous respect I did not try… Well I say just as I perceived. It’s one of those rare cases… …of human being who walked into a room and change the atmosphere, Foucault… …not just a person on the other hand none of us is a person, was truly as if entering another air… as if it were a stream of something special… …things changed, it was really atmospheric, was a kind of emanation… …an emanation of Foucault, had what one sees… irradiation, well said that… …he responds to what I said earlier, namely that there was no need to talk to him, not speak anymore of the things that made us laugh, almost as if being friends… …was to see someone laugh, to see someone and think What is it that will make us laugh today, and finally, after all, no matter what happens we can… …laugh… all these disasters. To my Foucault was and is the memory of someone who… …when I speak of the charm of someone, someone’s gestures, gestures of Foucault… …were amazing, they were somehow gestures metal and dry timber… …were very strange gestures, gestures were fascinating, they were very beautiful gestures. What is difficult to understand is the people who have no charm if it is not appropriate… …of insanity, is the side… the real charm of the people.. I lose a little… …temper, is the side that one does not know where it is, that does not mean that one… …will collapse, but rather they are people that does not subside, but if you do not recognize… …the little root or small grain madness of someone, you can not love him. This is the side on which one is completely somewhere… we are all slightly… …insane right? And if you do not recognize the small point of insanity of someone, then I’m afraid… …as to me, the point of someone’s dementia becomes the very source of its charm.

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